Go to Nicholas Courtney Interview - Part One

You were required to put on and shed five years, change your hairstyle etc. Did that confuse things?

It was very difficult. No, it wasn’t easy because you have to remember that those two Brigadiers were very close - there was only five years difference and the character was the same. Inferno - which is my favourite story - was much easier because they were totally different characters anyway and it’s very nice playing villains! I hope they’re going to show Inferno after The Silurians.

I believe it’s scheduled but they’re not showing Ambassadors of Death.

No, I know they’re not, but Inferno they will. If they show Inferno then that’ll be lovely because it IS my favourite story.

It has to be said that the duelling scar looks absolutely brilliant!

That make up used to take a long time and that was before you’d faced filming. Again, it was Douglas Camfield who directed - he was such a good director - and it is such a good story anyway with plenty of pace. Yes, it is my favourite although The Daemons is probably the classic story of the Pertwee years.

Was there any Who story that you worked on that you felt didn’t work either as a script or as the finished product?

No, not really although as I said I was least happy during Terror of the Zygons but that was only because I thought I was on the way out. Mind you, some of the monsters in that didn’t work too well I thought - the Skarasen or whatever it was - weren’t the best. I think Ambassadors of Death I don’t mind that not being shown - although it was well directed and fun - because it didn’t impress me that much.

There was also a criticism that the Brigadier, as the character developed, became a vehicle for the comic relief in the series. How did you feel about that?

Well, looking back to The Invasion, there was a time when the scripts were very military - barking out orders etc. - which is a bit boring for the audience and a bit boring for the actor to do. I was the one who wanted to introduce the comedy deliberately but not to play it like Monty Python and take the piss out of the character. I don’t mean that, but have the humour there as this army man who gets it wrong and the army men do get it wrong some of the time. So I played it completely dead-pan, like for example in The Three Doctors : "had a recce outside and I’m fairly sure that’s Cromer." Now I wrote that line and by that time I was allowed to write and I deliberately wanted to get some humour into it - not to try and get a laugh but to try and have the humour in there. I think it was good.

It seemed that the Brigadier was an out-and-out pragmatist who had to rationalise everything that happened to him.

Oh yes.

Put him in a situation with something that is "not of this Earth" and he will try and fit it into a box that will make sense out of an extraordinary situation.

Very much so.

Even right back in the early days you had a fantastic way of delivering lines that bring the ordinary into the extraordinary. In The Invasion there was the line “Fancy a cup of tea?” and you used a similar method of delivery in Spearhead from Space for the “training exercise” line.

It’s that deadpan delivery again!

Like at the end of The Daemons?

Yes, the one where Captain Yates asks the Brigadier if he fancies a dance round the Maypole and he replies with “I’d rather have a pint!” and he walks straight into the pub. That was another line that I wrote.

The Daemons looks like it was a lot of fun to do.

Oh yes, it was great fun, lovely.

There’s that great scene with the swagger stick by the heat barrier.

Yes, where it goes ‘whoosh!’

And that great effect with the arch. How was that done?

Ermm (thinks for a while) special effects! (laughs) My mother actually came to some of the recordings a long time ago and she was very interested in all that and would ask me “how do they do that?” and I would reply, “I don’t know! I’m just in front of the camera! I don’t know how they do it!” so I could never answer her because I just didn’t know! But they were very effective and I’m glad that the BBC is showing them again - and so is my bank manager!

To date, your final screen appearance in the show was in Battlefield. Wasn’t the Brigadier supposed to be killed off in that?

That’s quite true. That was the original idea. JNT invited me down to Brighton where he lives and we went out for a walk. On this walk he said to me, “How do you feel about killing the Brig off?” I thought about it for half an-hour and said; “Yes, that’ll be alright, I’ve been around a long time - give me a good story and I’ll do it. As long as he goes out in a blaze of glory.” But as the story developed, it didn’t work out like that, there were too many things going on and it looked liked the Brigadier’s death would have gone unnoticed so they changed their minds and decided to keep him alive.

Were you happy with that?

Yeah! I’ll do whatever the producer says. I wouldn’t have minded being killed off, although why not keep him alive? Why not? It’s all work and it’s not as if I’ve ever got tired of playing him - I haven’t, I’m very fond of him - and obviously I’ve added so much to him over the years and developed him and the programme has been very good to me. So I’m quite happy that he should be kept alive.

What did you think when you found out that the programme was going to be cancelled? Were you surprised?

No, not particularly because it had a very good run - a long time for a programme to run - and maybe a rethink was needed. I wasn’t surprised, but then all the spin-offs started happening you see. Like for example, Downtime and the radio plays so it has just gone on and on. Then there are the conventions of course, they go on all the time.

There was the 1996 TV movie with Paul McGann of course. Did you see that?

Yes, I did see it.

What did you think of it?

I thought Paul McGann was a very interesting choice and he’s a very good actor and I thought Sylvester because he has an enormous stillness - Sylvester is a very mercurial personality and he had terrific stillness (in the movie). But I didn’t think it worked because it got too American. I know they have huge budgets but you don’t necessarily make good programmes by throwing money at them all the time. They ended up in San Francisco, there were car chases and they made quite a few mistakes - which I can bring to mind at the moment - (grinning) Barry Letts will tell you, amongst other Doctor Who purists. So I didn’t reckon it highly. All that Millennium thing at the end was nonsense because midnight happens at different times throughout the world. No, it was quite impressive but it was just too American. It’s a British programme! It was very popular in the U.S. in the Eighties. I went to America I don’t know how many times during the Eighties to attend conventions, I think it has quietened down now, but it was very big.

In the early stages of the TV Movie the character of Ace was to have appeared. Were you ever in the frame to appear as the Brigadier?

No, not at all but I was at a convention in Coventry and I was signing some autographs and I heard that producer Philip Segal’s favourite character was the Brigadier. So I thought to myself, “Well why didn’t he employ me then?” you bet I would have done it because I know how much money they pay over there. But I don’t think it would have fitted in. It doesn’t matter.

Do you think that’s "it" as far as the programme is concerned?

It’s a terrible pun, but who knows? My view is that I don’t think the BBC will do it again, but of course you just never know. There’s always talk about this that and the other but I never believe anything until it happens.

If they were to do another series would you go back?

Yes, I suppose I would but it would depend on the story. I think it’s important that seeing as the Brigadier or more importantly I am older than I used to be, I wouldn’t be able to do as much running around (laughs). If the storyline was good then I’d certainly like to do it.

They’ve also married the character off now haven’t they?

Well, he’s been married twice. Of course you don’t know this, but his first wife was called Fiona. All the time I was playing The Brigadier I was forming in the back of my mind what sort of a man he was. There’s a scene in The Daemons where I’m woken up and I have to leave home and I remember Terrance Dicks saying at the time: “I wish we had enough money to employ an actress” as she’d turn to me and say don’t go, don’t go. And in my own mind I came to the conclusion that she had said to him it’s either The Doctor or me, and he goes off on yet another adventure and his first wife leaves him. Then he marries Doris some years later, who he had a fling with in Brighton.

Would you say there are many changes in TV from when you first started to now?

It’s changed so much, the technology has changed at a rapid pace. It’s not really made much difference to me because you just adapt to what new technology there is.

What do you think about television programmes made today?

I think the BBC are starting to produce some good things again,now they’ve got rid of that awful Jon Birt,

I read Michael Grades autobiography recently and he wasn’t a fan of his either

Nobody liked Jon Birt, because he wrecked the BBC. In my view all the things Birt did were awful. I think Greg Dyke will be much better. I’m glad the BBC are now going to be repeating other things as well as Doctor Who, like All Creatures Great and Small. The 60’s and 70’s television was much better I think, because the writing and the stories were better and the BBC went for quality. That’s not to say they still don’t do some very good things now because they do. It’s changed a lot and not necessarily for the better.

Do you think the BBC are more concerned with ratings rather than quality?

Yes and they shouldn’t be. It’s a public service broadcast and I believe strongly in the psb. That’s what the BBC should be about. They shouldn’t be obsessed with ratings and I believe in the licence fee. I don’t even like what they do on the BBC at the moment where they are showing trailers for programmes all the time between programmes, and I don’t think that it’s necessary. You don’t need to trail everything, everything is trailed too much in my opinion. It’s become too commercial. You’ve ITV, Channel 4 etc who do great stuff but times have moved on. I know who I blame. That dreadful woman Thatcher (laughter) She’s still my beton noir of all time. (laughter). You know they did a special Doctor Who night, well I gave an interview on that and they cut it. They phoned me the day before and said: I’m sorry but we’ve had to cut your interview, it’s not your performance or anything. I didn’t mind too much, but what did sadden me was that in my interview towards the end of it I’m talking about Terror of The Zygons and the scene where The Brigadier has to answer the phone and it’s the Prime Minister and he responds by saying: “Yes Ma’am.” Douglas Camfield (the director) thought that we might have a woman Prime Minister and at that time we thought it would be Shirley Williams. And The Brig never liked politicians because he thought they were self seeking and liars - probably (pause) definitely (laughs) And so I was saying to this interviewer that of course 5 years later fiction became horrid fact (laughter). That’s the only reason I’m sad my interview didn’t go out because I would have like the world to know what I thought about that barking mad woman.

I think you should really get to the point (laughter)

Get to the point!

If you don’t like her you should say so.

Well, I have. I’ve intimated it in my book, my God I have. I think she’s got a lot to answer for. I don’t really want to go to deep into politics. If you see that woman these days (Mrs Thatcher) she’s just barking mad now, having wrecked this country and all the values I believe in. She ought to be in a straight jacket now, she really ought to be (laughter) and you can quote me on that!

You were in Doppleganger

Yes, I suppose it’s what you might have called a “sit on part”. I was sitting at a desk typing, and pretending I know about technology but I don’t.

Rob Parish was the director. He was supposed to be a difficult man

I only had one days work on it, and I certainly can’t recall having any problems with him.

You did an Only Fools and Horses as well

Yes, I really enjoyed that. The director Tony Dow, who I had met before when I’d worked with Frankie Howard. Tony said to me, I’m so sorry it’s such a small part, I think I played the head waiter at a restaurant, and I said don’t worry you’re paying me for one days work and it’ll pay for my kids Christmas presents and what happens they repeat it and then the show got a BAFTA award and then the series was sold abroad. So it was quite a lucrative role really.

What can you tell us about your appearance on Harry Hill?

I recorded that back in October, as The Brigadier. My agent contacted me and said would you like to do The Harry Hill Show and I said, yes of course. It was wonderful to do, obviously he (Harry) had grown up with Doctor Who and liked the Brigadier and asked me to do a guest spot. I do a scene with a Cyberman and another scene where I’m singing a song by The Communards called Don’t Leave Me This Way and it should be going out at the end of February I think. So you’ll be able to see The Brigadier in full costume singing Don’t Leave Me This Way, so that should be a laugh. (Laughter). He was a lovely man Harry Hill, a delightful man.

I saw Harry Hill on The David Letterman Show and I don’t think the American audience understood him.

His humour is very individual, I didn’t understand all of it. I went to see the recording because some of it was pre-filmed, so my agent, my wife and I went along. But he was such a lovely guy to work with, he asked me if I’d come back and I said “you bet.”

Are there any Who related gags in the panto?

Not really we thought about that. There was one point where I’m playing this dotty King and I go off somewhere and I say I must go now I’ve got places to visit people to see and we were going to put in and planets to go to. But I decided not to do that because it is a traditional pantomime but what the director wrote, we have cuplets and the end of the show where we all line up at the end. And my line is because I’ve got rid at last of the wicked queen, “I’m free to chase my dream I’m working on a patent for a time and space machine” (laughter). So that is the link.

Have any of the parents or children recognised you as the Brigadier?

I don’t know, I’ve got the beard now you see. The kids in the show know because they’ve read their CV’s, some of them said I didn’t recognise you and I said well it was nearly 30 years ago, I had dark hair then and I was thinner. The voice for most people is the give away, Barry Letts said to me when we were doing the radio programme with Jon Pertwee and Lis Sladen he said: Your voice has changed very little. Your voice has got a regeneration power of its own.

It could be argued that you’re more of a link with the show than the Doctor

Yes, seen seven, got rid of seven (laughs).

You were the ideal choice for the narration to 30 Years in the Tardis

Kevin Davis directed that. I loved the scene with the Autons at the end and then of course came More Than 30 Years In The TARDIS. I was also going to be playing The Brigadier in the Bill Baggs production Auton but sadly I had to bow out of that because I wasn’t very well which was a bit of a shame, I think I did see the first one at a convention and I thought it was very clever.

What’s next for Nick Courtney?

I’m spending New Year with my in laws then it’s back off to London to do the audio version of my book, do a Brigadier story with Colin Baker for Big Finish and I’m also writing something for myself. I’m thinking about doing a one man show which is nothing to do with Doctor Who at all. I can’t really say too much about it yet because it isn’t very far advanced. The one man show will be based around an actor who’s been a long time dead Donald Wiffit and I was assistant stage manager to a show he was doing and that was my first real job. And I thought I might do a one man show about him because it hasn’t been done. It hasn’t been written yet I still need to work on it, so that’s as far as I know.

Is there anyone you’d like to work with?

Lots of people. I’d like to do a play called The Browning Version by Terrance Ratigan and the characters called Andrew Crocker Harris and I’ve always wanted to play that part but I might be too old to do that now. I want to do more Shakespeare because I haven’t done nearly enough of that.

As an actor what is the fascination with doing Shakespeare, because it looks a nightmare to read?

To me he’s the guvnor. It’s much easier to learn than other plays I’ll tell you. To me it’s very easy. I know many plays that I’ve done which have been much harder work to do than Shakespeare, I just have a feeling for it, I always have. Sometimes people say to me do you regret being typecast and playing The Brigadier and I don’t have any regrets at all, because I have done things like Shakespeare and I’d just like to do some more. I don’t want to do huge parts though because you get old and you can’t remember the lines.

INTERVIEW CONDUCTED AND TRANSCRIBED BY GARY FINNEY AND STEVE HARDY INTERVIEW COPYRIGHT 1999 SENTINEL 451 LIMITED.